FHA Owner Occupied Duplex Rental Income?


Question by yes345: FHA Owner Occupied Duplex Rental Income?
I am looking to buy an owner occupied duplex or an outright investment property. I am waiting until I save up a bit more, but have started to do some research. I keep finding conflicting information about using potential rental income to qualify for an owner occupied duplex. I have found information like this, “Rental income may be added to the Borrower’s wage income…For purchases, the appraiser is responsible for documenting the “market rent” for the property”. I have also seen sources that say lenders do not allow rental income to qualify for a property. Also, does anyone have firsthand knowledge of average LTV for investment/rental properties? I have seen 95% on Sun trust’s website that also says rental income may be used to qualify for properties. I thought that was a bit strange, I have never seen 5% down for investment properties. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Best answer:

Answer by Janet P
No lenders count rental income until you can document you collected it for 2 years. 30% down is the norm for investment property.

What do you think? Answer below!

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It’s interesting how rental real estate gets treated as an investment. Like Rodney Dangerfield, it gets no respect. While conventional investments like stocks and bonds get the Financial Post and the Wall Street Journal, do a search on “how to purchase real estate” and you’ll discover all kinds of no-money down schemes that seem designed to sell books and tapes instead of investment real estate. On TV there is Report on Business TV, but for real estate you’ll see flipping shows or infomercials. It strikes me as pitiful that such a solid investment vehicle gets such a bad reputation.

It is possible to buy with no money down, but it involves arranging a high ratio mortgage, and for rental property you only do that if you have equity in other properties. In other words, if you’ve got one property free and clear its relatively easy to arrange a line of credit at prime. A 0,000 property would cost about 0 per month, plus taxes and maintenance of about 0. In short, it would carry itself and give you income to pay the financing costs.

A more common method to buy income real estate is with a deposit. Usually is you can make investment property itself with less than 40% down its probably a good deal. These kinds of properties are easier to come across in stable markets.

There are lots of reasons to own investment real estate.

Reason #1 to own income real estate is because your renters buy it for you. Even if the other benefits didn’t accrue, that on it’s own justifies the investment. But the fact is, there are more benefits to buying rental property

Reason #2 is leverage. The most effective description of how leverage works comes from the book Buy, Rent, Sell, by Lionel Needleman (Needleman is not a fast talker; in fact, he’s an accomplished author and professor with many published books and articles on housing in Great Britain and Canada. His assumptions and math is a bit simplistic, and need to be tweaked for your local market, but the book is worth looking at).

He explains leverage in the following manner: John and Mary each buy a property 0,000. After a year both houses have increased 10% in value. Both buyers sell the properties and compare the profits.

John began with 0,000, and now has 0,000, which means he has earned a 10% return on his investment. Mary, on the other hand, put ,000 down on her property, and mortgaged the balance for,000. When she sells she clears off the mortgage and totals everything. She also received a ,000 profit, but since she only invested ,000 in the income property, she’s made a 100% return on her down payment. As you may suspect, the real kicker is that while John invested in one house, kept it for a year and then sold it with a ,000 profit, Mary acquired 10 houses, kept them one year, and then sold them for a 0,000 profit. Both started out with 0,000, but after a year John has only got 0,000 while Mary ,000 more. The numbers are simplified in this example, but they decisively demonstrate the magic of leverage.

Reason #3 is taxes. In most tax zones costs incurred on investment real estate is comes off income. And, you can generally incur depreciation expense on the structure that in effect are paper losses that reduce the tax burden. Depreciation works like this: we know that the value of a durable item, like a structure, decreases with the years. Even if the property is maintained perfectly, an old house is not worth the same amount of money as a new house. This loss is depreciation, and you can use that depreciation loss to decrease the total tax payable.

Of course, when we invest in income property we expect that it will go up in price, and over the long run it often does. What occurs with the depreciation in that case? The tax collector was told the property fell in price through depreciation, but at the end of the process we sold at a profit. The taxman usually says that you’ve “re-captured” the depreciation and levy tax.

Re-capture is no fun. It’s like discovering that you’ve already spent the money that you intended on spending in the future.

There is a great solution. When you buy the investment you cut up the original investment between the building value and the property value. Without cheating you set the value of the land as low as possible and the structure as high as reasonable (do the math and you’ll see it pays to be reasonable on your splits). When the property goes up in price and you liquidate, you tell the taxman that you didn’t recapture any depreciation since the structure did depreciate, while the land increased in value. This profit is capital gain, and capital gain is usually taxed at lower rates than income like…rent. You depreciate the money you make when you earn it as rent, and pay tax on it when it comes from capital gain.

Owning income producing property also enables you to write off the costs of things that you might have bought anyway, from office supplies to a trip to see the property.

Reason #4 is capital gain. Capital gain doesn’t always happen, but it often does. As we’ve seen with leverage, the capital gain can be leveraged. Even better, the capital gain can, sometimes, be greater than what some folks earn in a year of work.

Reason #5 puts everything together by combining cash flow, leverage, and tax planning. Rental real estate generate cash flow. Initially the cash flow could be neutral or even negative, but after some time it will often becomes positive. When it does you need to pay income tax on the excess rent. The solution for that is to re-mortgage and incur additional interest cost, reducing your taxes. You also re-leverage your initial property. The next step is to take that money and buy another income property. You pay no income tax, incur more depreciation, and still earn a capital gain. Better yet, with two properties you spread the risk, and when the time comes to sell you can stretch out the timeline and sell the properties in different years to minimize tax.

It can’t be repeated enough that you need to buy income property wisely. You need to know the location and the potential tenant. Properties that are desirable and are in a desirable area stay rented. “Desirable” doesn’t have to be “mansion”, but warm, clean, dry and well priced are critical. Whether you buy a 1 bedroom apartment or a three bedroom house with a suite isn’t important.

Metrics are critical. The first is price-to-rent ratio. What that means is that you take the price, say 0,000, and divide the rent, say 00/month, into that. In this case the result would be 100. Numbers between 75 and 175 are great, but never forget that projected capital gains and interest rates impact what numbers you go with. Low interest rates permit higher numbers, and solid capital gain projections will demand higher numbers. Over 200 is no good in almost every location unless all you need is dependable income, aren’t concerned about capital gain or don’t ever plan to sell.

Another excellent metric is the break even rate. This is the percentage of the price need for a down payment to allow the realistic rent to carry the property. The rent has to be a) market rent, not “hoped for” rent, and b) net rent, not gross rent. If the investment will carry at less than 45% down its worth looking at. Clearly, if interest rates are low the net rent will carry more, meaning the break even rate can be high. Remember that low rates don’t last forever, so unless you can lock in very long term you have to assume that the break even rate to be low in low interest rate environments, and can be higher in higher interest rate environments.

If you discover a piece of property that has a desirable price to rent ratio and a desirable break even rate (and is in a good area and isn’t a bad idea), its worth throwing the numbers onto a spreadsheet and determining the internal rate of return (a real estate investment metric that combines various income streams) and projected cash on sale. There are spreadsheets and programs that can calculate this for you, but the key is “GIGO” – garbage in, garbage out. Use correct taxes, the correct interest rates, your projections of income tax rate, and realistic estimates of capital gain and maintenance. Properties in bustling urban areas generally go up in value more than properties in rural or depressed locales. They also often have what seem to be inferior metrics – a downtown city condo could have a much worse price to rent and break even point than small house in a mill town. However, capital appreciation in a rural area is likely much riskier. Measuring mortgage pay down and tax benefits on a detailed spreadsheet let’s you fairly evaluate exactly how competing investments compare.

It would be foolish to ignore the issue of a property bubble, or crash. Buying on metrics both helps and hinders. It helps because if you are hard-nosed with break even rates and rent multipliers you wouldn’t purchase overpriced investment property (underpriced income property doesn’t really turn up in a bubble, and it doesn’t crash in value). It hinders because you can’t buy on metrics in a bubble, no matter how much you want to, because metric compliant properties don’t exist.

The other side of this is that when a market crashes there are lots of metric compliant properties, but often little mortgage financing and plenty of scared buyers and stressed sellers.

All in all, a balanced market is the optimum for purchasers, although buyers who acquire on metrics and exit the market near the peak often feel like they’ve hit the jackpot.

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Written by Honestwiseguy30
hey guys, Im a keen philosopher, fitness obsessed, lover of enjoyment but in all still god fearing ( but never boring ) respect to those who respect

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Question by ProfessionalMom: Rental Property (Arizona), used to live in for 12+ months – Short Sale Reprocussions?
Property in Arizona that I have owned since July of 2006, purchased and occupied for 12 months before moving to the East Coast in July of 2007. I have never been late or missed a payment on my mortgage. I now own a home on the East Coast where I live and have been renting the Arizona home for 3 years. I am $ 160K upside down in the Arizona Home and come out of pocket $ 1000+ a month to finish the mortgage, hoa’s, taxes, etc. I currently have the property listed with an agent in an attempt to do a short-sale, but with so many homes on the market it is not getting any offers. My question is, if I am able to complete a short sale will I be responsible for paying taxes on the amount the mortgage company cancels, will I be liable to have the mortgage company come after me for the difference owed since this is a rental property. Please note that the loan is still the original loan from when we lived there, so it’s not a “second property” or a “investment property” loan.
To “the tax lady” –
To make sure I am on the same page and understanding you correctly.
I Purchased for $ 270,000 07/2006.
I lived in it for 12 months and in 07/2007 converted it to a rental and the FMV at that time was $ 235,000 (this would be a $ 35K depreciation that doesn’t count).
From 07/2007 to today my FMV has dropped to approx. $ 100,000 for a total depreciation while a rental of $ 135K.
If I am understanding you correctly and I short-sale for $ 100K, my mortgage company will be taking a loss of $ 170,000 total and if I minus my $ 135K depreciation while a rental, this would leave me with $ 35,000. Are you saying that I would be reporting $ 35,000 as income on my taxes? I think this is what you are trying to say. Look forward to your feedback and thank you.

P.S. Do you know if the mortgage company can come after me for the difference or do I qualify under the Arizona Anti-Deficency Act?

Best answer:

Answer by the tax lady
Hire a competent tax professional to run a mock tax return for you.

Can you document the FMV of the house when you converted it to a rental? Any losses that occurred while it was your personal residence are NOT deductible.

When you short sell (or foreclose), you will have a sale to be reported on form 4797. You can claim any losses that occurred after it was rental.

The 1099-C for cancelled debt will be income on the schedule E and will cancel out the loss on the 4797 (for all but the depreciation you have previously claimed).

While you can use form 982, it can only be used if you are insolvent or in bankruptcy. This would save you the gain from the depreciation (the first thing the 982 does is absorb the NOL).

What do you think? Answer below!

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Buying investment property with 5 % down, for rental purposes
Video Rating: 5 / 5

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Investment Properties & The Rental Market

A Realtor’s perspective on the Investment property and Rental market. For more information and video’s, visit www.callkaren.net

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2 Property Investment. Can You Show Me How To Find The Best?http://www.BelowMarketValuePropertyInvestments.com

A leading site for learning all aspects of property investment from finding motivated sellers to buying below market value with no money down.

Property investment and real estate has become an increasingly attractive option for many people who want greater financial freedom and increased returns on their investments. Finding below market value investment property for sale i.e. people becoming repossessed or divorced offers great opportunities for property development investment. This is the secret to making really profitable immediate returns quickly of up to 40 per cent of the value of the property as all successful property investors know that the money in property is made when you buy and not when you sell.

Don’t expect to get the best deals from an estate agents display as it won’t happen. They are snapped up because the seller wants to sell quickly for less money. Makes sense doesn’t it. And guess what, the majority go to the Agent’s friends or developers contacts. The best way to get the best deals is to get them through your own means.

As a result the property investment market has much to offer investors looking to buy investment property direct from time motivated sellers i.e people in debt and facing impending repossession or divorce and who are looking to sell at huge discounts very quickly that will give the investor instant profits of up to 40 per cent of the value of the property.

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There are various property financing services that provide no money down solutions to real estate and property investments. These services allow investors to take out what is known as a closed bridging loan. This enables them to buy a property without having to use their own money as a deposit.

Many serious property investors have created enormous no money down property portfolios with very little money upfront. The secret is borrowing against the value of a property rather than the purchase price which is the technique behind no money down investing.

Getting property investment advice on how to buy property is all too easy. There are many services that will charge you money for advice or a property investment course. However getting the right advice or finding a good course is like gold dust. Not only will it save much time and money but will show you how to build a property portfolio and make money quickly using little or none of your own money up front.

Closed bridging can be a very effective way to quickly grow a UK property investment portfolio if you are purchasing properties below market value. It can enable you to buy no money down and then get instant money returned to you on completion.

One of the biggest frustrations I hear from people getting started in below market value property investing is lack of money. They don’t have enough money for a down payment. They can’t have that money tied up for months, even years. They can’t buy multiple properties because they don’t have the cash. I have some suggestions for how you can use 100 per cent financing, so you don’t have to use any of your own money.

Sound too good to be true? I assure you it’s not.

You have to ensure that you are dealing with time motivated sellers with enough equity in their property to pay their mortgage and all their liabilities off.

This is what a below market value property investment deal is, usually 15 to 40 per cent below market value with the aim of having to use none of your own money to finance the deal purchasing property from people in debt or looking for a quick sale for numerous reasons such as repossession, divorce and relocation.

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2 Columbus Real Estate Investment Rental Property, ...Lovely 4-bedbroom 1.5-bathroom, 2-story, brick home. Beautifully rehabbed and ready for tenant! Rents $750-$895. Turnkey investment opportunity on low maintenance, brick home! ColumbusCheapProperty.com

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Investment Property Analyzer

2 Investment Property AnalyzerOur powerful investment analysis tool helping real estate investors make key decisions to maximize rate of return and overall financial safety when purchasing and owning investment properties

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Quicken Rental Property Manager

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Quicken Rental Property Manager 2010

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  • Manage your personal, business, and rental property finances in one place with Quicken Rental Property Manager 2010
  • Tracks income and expenses by property; identifies tax-deductible rental property expenses
  • Lets you know which rents have been paid and who owes you money
  • Shows you where your money is going by automatically categorizing your personal and business expenses
  • View your profit and loss at a glance, so you always know how your business is doing

Product Description
Quicken Rental Property Manager is software for easily managing and organizing your personal and rental property finances, all in one place.Amazon.com Product Description
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